Policy talk:Universal Code of Conduct: Difference between revisions

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== Vote ==
== Vote ==
I look at the 'Timeline' section. I see more than 20 steps. But I do not see the most important - the ratification. Is any kind of vote or any other ''real'' confirmation of communities' consent is planned? What is the procedure of proposing and adopting amendments? I am a member of a ruwiki community. We have our policies on conduct. I am not quite happy with everything in it, but at least I can try to democratically change it through polls and votes (and I can). And that is the main reason, why I follow them voluntarily. Here I can't. And no my trusted representative can. Will the Code be legitimate? Dubious. Well, It can be ''enforced'' (scheduled for Dec'21). But no legitimacy can ever be gained with force. --[[User:Abiyoyo|Abiyoyo]] ([[User talk:Abiyoyo|talk]]) 15:01, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
I look at the 'Timeline' section. I see more than 20 steps. But I do not see the most important - the ratification. Is any kind of vote or any other ''real'' confirmation of communities' consent is planned? What is the procedure of proposing and adopting amendments? I am a member of a ruwiki community. We have our policies on conduct. I am not quite happy with everything in it, but at least I can try to democratically change it through polls and votes (and I can). And that is the main reason, why I follow them voluntarily. Here I can't. And no my trusted representative can. Will the Code be legitimate? Dubious. Well, It can be ''enforced'' (scheduled for Dec'21). But no legitimacy can ever be gained with force. --[[User:Abiyoyo|Abiyoyo]] ([[User talk:Abiyoyo|talk]]) 15:01, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

:{{ping|Abiyoyo}} the question about ratification has been brought up several times in the [[Universal Code of Conduct/2021 consultations/Roundtable discussions|Roundtable discussions]]. As we are now waiting for the Drafting Committee to complete the Draft on Enforcement Guideline, everyone is welcome to provide their feedback on this one. [[User:RamzyM (WMF)|RamzyM (WMF)]] ([[User talk:RamzyM (WMF)|talk]]) 23:33, 22 July 2021 (UTC)


== Universal Code of Conduct News – Issue 2 ==
== Universal Code of Conduct News – Issue 2 ==

Revision as of 23:33, 22 July 2021

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Doxing

It seems to me that doxing clause basically forbids public paid editing investigations of any kind. It was like that on English Wikipedia for significant amount of time, but not all projects agree with such baseline. Also, per foundation:Privacy policy it is allowed for Wikimedia staff or "particular users with certain administrative rights" to "share your Personal Information if it is reasonably believed to be necessary to enforce or investigate potential violations of our Terms of Use, this Privacy Policy, or any Wikimedia Foundation or user community-based policies". Undisclosed paid editing is a violation of Wikimedia terms of use, so Privacy policy allows forced disclosure in such cases while current UCoC draft does not. I think it's a serious flaw and should be amended in the UCoC. Another unclear point here is when an editor is a subject of an article and there is a reliable source confirming that this person is a specific Wikipedia editor, but editor himself hasn't consent to publishing this information in-wiki. Does the UCoC forbid to use this source in an article about this person? Adamant.pwn (talk) 12:26, 19 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Another flaw in the total prohibition of "doxing" is where EditorA causes EditorB so much harm that EditorB sees fit to sue EditorA in a court of law where he can obtain financial compensation for the harm done. (Wikimedia can permanently block EditorA, but is almost powerless to prevent EditorA spawning sockpuppets and certainly cannot award EditorB damages. In order to go to court, it is necessary for EditorB to give the court EditorA's name and address which, according to Wikimedia's rules, is prohibited (See for example the fictitious example given in en:Wikipedia:Don't overlook legal threats). Martinvl (talk) 22:17, 15 January 2021 (UTC)Reply
In my understanding the prohibition of "Disclosure of personal data" AKA "Doxing" primarily prohibits edits and creation of new pages with contents like "Ashley Example, 11 years old, phone 001 987 1234567, attends class 4e at Closed School in Nowherebourg TX, and is very gay." I have deleted or hidden a large amount of such edits at SV wiktionary, so this is a real problem. Taylor 49 (talk) 17:34, 16 January 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Taylor 49: That may well be the case, but the letter of CoC goes a lot further. I am pointing out a possible unintended consequence of such a general prohibition without a caveat regarding the process of law, bearing in mind that the Wikimedia Foundation is subject to the Law of the United States and the Law of the State of California. Furthermore, there are many moves in both the UK and the EU to clamp down on the social media giants (and under their definition, Wikipedia is regarded as "social media") and depending on what they come up with, Jimbo, who lives in London, could potentially find himself in the firing line. Martinvl (talk) 22:49, 17 January 2021 (UTC)Reply
Basically users are being held responsible for their actions on Wikimedia Projects, not the WMF (ToU). @Martinvl: The WMF UCoC does not have a higher status than local law, so generally speaking a person has to tell private details when that is necessary for the courtcase and permitted by local laws. WMF doesn't accept responsibility for the content in their projects, according to their official legal POV. On the other hand the WMF encourages and uses volunteers / content-creators to enforce their ToU and Policies. Encourages volunteers to delete content where private information of users or others is being published, like @Taylor 49: did. So in day-to-day practice, WMF does take responsibility for content as well. When a German child is being doxed on German Wikipedia and WMF didn't act properly, and the parents go into a German court, it doesn't seem impossible at all that a German judge will find enough touchpoints to form the legal opinion, the case can be brought for a German court, German law is applicable, and WMF is to be hold co-responsible. WMF than can as a next step sue the user. @Martinvl: As for the EU, it probably will not take another 20 years before the first EU based court will decide, normal users with the status of consumer can go into court in their home-region against an Internet platform with it's company seat and server-structure in the US (or China). JustB EU (talk) 19:58, 26 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
So, there is an editor, who attends wiki-meetups but decides to keep their identity private and objects to publication of his personal data. The problem here is that he's also a notable person and has an article on Russian Wikipedia about himself. Article has a picture which is categorized on commons with his real name. And there are some pictures of him taken in meetups, categorized with his Wikimedia user name. Would it violate UCoC to merge these two categories? Or to mention them alongside each other? Adamant.pwn (talk) 19:41, 10 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
And another issue is that UCoC applies to "private, public and semi-public interactions". So, does it mean that even telling someone in private correspondence about other editor's identity is now a severe violation? Adamant.pwn (talk) 13:08, 29 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

What's supposed to happen now?

BChoo (WMF) what is supposed to happen during Phase 2? Tetizeraz (talk) 21:02, 18 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Tetizeraz: Phase 2 will involve community conversations regarding how the UCoC will be enforced. We will have much more information in the next few weeks, which I will post on meta as soon as I am able to. BChoo (WMF) (talk) 22:18, 19 January 2021 (UTC)Reply
BChoo (WMF) Per Universal_Code_of_Conduct#Current_news wasn't the board supposed to review and approve it first? Is that review still ongoing? Vexations (talk) 23:24, 19 January 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Vexations: We hope to hear word on this soon. BChoo (WMF) (talk) 18:00, 20 January 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Vexations: The final text as drafted by the Drafting Committee has been approved by the Board after some changes, per the 9th of December 2020. (WMF Board, Resolution: Approval Universal Code of Conduct).

UCoC enforcement

@BChoo (WMF): & @Xeno (WMF): From the official WMF Board Resolution can be learned that the UCoC is an enforceable policy as of December 9th 2020 (see: WMF Board, Resolution: Approval Universal Code of Conduct). You mention community conversations in phase 2 regarding how UCoC will be enforced. What are the fields of unclearity here? How shall local Wikipedia volunteer enforcers act today when a user comes up with a serious and motivated enforcement-request regarding behaviour that's being described as Unacceptable in the UCoC but not being mentioned in the ToU? Thanks, keep up! FYI: Tetizeraz & Vexations ? JustB EU (talk) 15:15, 22 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for the engaging question JustB EU. The approach in that situation would have to depend on the type of problem being reported. I hope the responding user - if they felt available and capable to do so - would take steps to support the user, consider their situation, connect with their perspective, and respond in a way intended to reduce harm.
"I understand why that is troubling, and I'm sorry you're experiencing this. You made the right decision in reaching out and I want to help you with this situation. If you are able and comfortable to do so, could you email your concern to (e.g. local admins / Arbitration Committee / Stewards / other supporting pathways )? This group is well-equipped to respond to situations such as the one you described. If you are unable to do so, I can contact them on your behalf."
In a serious situation where a contributor is feeling harassed or unsafe, there are existing reporting methods to engage responders who have experience helping users experiencing distress and in addressing novel situations not previously covered by policy or practice. FYI: Tetizeraz & Vexations: pinged earlier. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 20:20, 10 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Xeno (WMF): I contribute mainly on English Wikipedia and Portuguese Wikipedia, and Wikidata and the Commons. If I, or someone else in those projects, feel they need help because of something the UCOC mentions, who and where they should contact? Tetizeraz (talk) 20:47, 10 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
{{ping|@Xeno (WMF): pinging again because my last ping missed one ). Tetizeraz (talk) 20:48, 10 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
Thanks @Xeno (WMF): for your feedback. Not experiencing heavy harassment but knowing of situations where moderators did tend to act against complaintives or play down complaints, from the POV there are no local rules. Too often people simply leave the project after such an experience. Clear universal rules could be of help to broaden editing communities, therewith diversifying content and attract broader reader groups. In some communities, voices can be heard, expressing not being happy with the UCoC-"lawmaking procedure" and tending not to support the WMF in policing and enforcing the UCoC. So more generally speaking the question is, does the WMF have ideas about dealing with a possible UCoC policing black hole? As long as there is unclearity about who is policing and enforcing the UCoC, maybe the WMF could enable something like a UCoC complaint-handling-center? Or make clear, like Tetizeraz is asking, where users can go for help. Thanks, Keep up! JustB EU (talk) 11:53, 13 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
Tetizeraz and JustB EU: What approach would work best for those communities? In general, the usual pathways should be used: attempting local dispute resolution; contacting local administrators or functionaries when appropriate, and seeking Foundation support in cases of serious harm. It may also be that community participants should determine if adjustments or additions to local policies and guidelines are needed for situations not currently described. I know that English Wikipedia established an Arbitration Committee that signs the Confidentiality agreement for nonpublic information, so that is an option for that particular project. I see Portuguese Wikipedia was mentioned, input can now be provided at pt:Wikipédia:Esplanada/geral/Código_Universal_de_Conduta_(6mai2021). JustB EU, I noticed you did not yet contribute to Talk:Universal Code of Conduct/2021 consultations/Discussion, your input would be useful for the drafting committee to consider, sooner is better! I will also include the remarks in this thread. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 15:45, 8 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Let's talk translation!!!

Hello all,

I’m the staff person who is coordinating the work to translate the UCoC and other related pages. Our goal is for people who do not read English to have access to the material soon after it is posted to Meta in English. Currently, we have around 10 languages with most of the content translated and next week plan on doing a larger call for volunteers to translate. You can track the progress on the Translation guidance page.

The Foundation’s team members working on the project welcome suggestions about all aspects of the content (concepts and word choice.) Hopefully this is obvious since we plan do consultations near non stop from now to July. :-)

In order for people who read languages besides English to participate in reviewing the concepts and wording, we need for there to be a stable version that everyone is commenting on at the same time. We plan to make improvements at regular intervals as needed and then provide change logs so translators can make updates. While not a lightweight “iterative process”, we designed the process to provide for feedback loops that should allow for improvements over time.

Phase 2 will have several points in time where it will be important to have a stable version. So going forward, I’m asking for suggestions to be made on the talk page and not made directly to the page.

Thank you to all staff and volunteers who are translating these pages. It is essential work that makes the Wikimedia movement more accessible and inclusive. Warm regards, SPoore (WMF) Senior Strategist, Trust & Safety (talk) 22:01, 5 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

  • There's no need to shout. And as a main point - if all the legal, corporate talk in UCoC is supposed to determine who is getting banned and when - why are you relying on volunteers? Why translation of a legal text cannot be done with the powers of WMF? Remember that the basis in every language is supposed to have the same power as in English. Do you really want to rely on volunteers to commit to that? Lukasz Lukomski (talk) 23:45, 7 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
I translated much or most of the Dutch version but I would not want to be held accountable for any errors. The English text is very ambiguous. I provided a faithful translation, but there are many occasions where the translated version does not make sense or can be interpreted in several ways. There are two reasons for that: The original sometimes does not make sense. The original relies on concepts that do not exist in the target language's culture. My effort is deeply flawed and nobody should use the translation for anything other than as an aid to reading. Under no circumstances should it be enforceable. Vexations (talk) 13:24, 8 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
I think, that's something for most languages. The text is rather vague und ambiguous, such either not enforceable for anything legitimately, or for enforceable for anything illegitimately. Some is just corporate mumbo-jumbo without proper meaning, i.e. bullshit-bingo-stuff, some is plain matter of courses, all reeks of pining the jelly to the wall. If you codify such stuff, the Wikilawyers will run amuck and destroy all sensible cooperation. Nobody with any corporate or business consultant background must be inbvolved in such stuff, they can't get anything right and reasonable. Grüße vom Sänger ♫(Reden) 14:59, 8 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hello, I’m replying to several of your posts together because they are related. I’m seeing two related but distinct issues that I want to address.

  • Discrepancies in translation text: Despite the good work of agencies, staff, and volunteers, I’m sure that discrepancies exist in these different language versions. Prior to posting the agency translations, the text was reviewed by Wikimedians and in many instances improved to reflect the Wikimedia context. But errors happen.  And more frequently, people will disagree about the best word choice.
    • Communities are encouraged to help us identify and correct the discrepancies. Local translators often discuss wording on the talk page of translations. For questions about topics that might be relevant to the broader content, I encourage you to use the Translation guidance talk page to share questions and ideas about ways to improve the wording.
    • Discussions about enforcement of text will happen during Phase 2 and will include discussion about how volunteer administrators and functionaries will interpret the UCoC.
  • Cultural differences between Wikimedia projects: The UCoC is not meant to replace existing, effective behavioral standards. Rather, the UCoC will work as a basic standard for all projects, particularly those projects that have few or no existing behavioral standards. Local policies or practices that seem to be in contravention of the UCoC can be examined and resolved taking into account relevant cultural context.

Does it make sense that we are handling these two aspects(Discrepancies vs. cultural difference.) differently? SPoore (WMF) Senior Strategist, Trust & Safety (talk) 14:54, 9 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

@SPoore (WMF), take a look at the policy talk page, please. Iniquity (talk) 10:44, 9 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
Thank you, Iniquity. I'll take a look. SPoore (WMF) Senior Strategist, Trust & Safety (talk) 14:54, 9 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
That's not how it supposed to work at all. There's a weight of responsibility (and WMF afer producing UCoC is avoiding it) on translation and usually it is borne by specified, trained and qualified professionals. Shifting it onto volunteers and communities to deal with the outcome of less than professional translation is more than disappointing. On the second element - Phase 2 involves discussions over a text that's not yet translated. There's no discussion over viability in terms of use of it only about hypothetical enforcement. Whoever trained those facilitators, didn't do a very good job (besides their ability to use corporate speak) Lukasz Lukomski (talk) 15:16, 9 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
SPoore_(WMF) Does it make sense that we are handling these differently? I'm confused. What does "these" refer to? Vexations (talk) 16:13, 9 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
Two aspects that I addressed in my post. Discrepancies vs. cultural difference. I tweaked the wording to make more clear. SPoore (WMF) Senior Strategist, Trust & Safety (talk) 16:20, 9 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
@SPoore (WMF), hi! You wanted to talk with translators, but no messages from you about 4! four month. Everything is ok? Iniquity (talk) 21:19, 21 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Let's talk translation responsibility, @SPoore (WMF):

The users above do all mention serious concerns, which I do share, they ask specific questions, which I also do have and they have sound proposals, which I do support. Their focus is not on translating free-created Wikimedia Project content from one language into another. The focus is on transferring a piece of legal code designed under responsibility of the WMF for the US jurisdiction, into pieces of code that have to function alike in other jurisdictions all over the world. This is not an issue that can be solved in Phase 2. Local volunteers all first need a reliable piece of legal code that functions in their jurisdiction, approved by the WMF. Than it must be examined, by experts, whether local policies and/or practices are in contravention of the UCoC. After that is clear, it's up to the volunteers to decide, whether they want to police that piece of WMF legal code within their communities. (All written as imho). Thanks for your attention. JustB EU (talk) 17:00, 26 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

Early 2021 consultation summary report and individual summaries

The summary report and 15 individual summaries from the early 2021 consultations are available now:

Summary
  1. Arabic
  2. Afrikaans
  3. Bangla + Assamese + Bishnupriya
  4. Wikimedia Commons
  5. Korean
  6. Igbo + Hausa + Twi
  7. Indonesian
  8. Italian
  9. Maithili + Newari + Bhojpuri + Doteli
  10. Malay
  11. Nepali
  12. Polish
  13. Santali
  14. Wikidata
  15. Yoruba

On behalf of the project team, Xeno (WMF) (talk) 12:41, 26 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

The Universal Code of Conduct project facilitation team will be hosting round-table discussions for Wikimedians to talk together about how to enforce the Universal Code of Conduct on 15 and 29 May 2021 at 15:00 UTC.

The calls will last between 60 and 90 minutes, and will include a 5-10 minute introduction about the purpose of the call, followed by structured discussions using the key enforcement questions. The ideas shared during the calls will be shared with the committee working to draft an enforcement policy. Please sign up ahead of time to join. In addition to these calls, input can still be provided on the key questions at local discussions or on Meta in any language.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the Universal Code of Conduct 2021 consultations so far. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 13:40, 4 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Late-arriving input

Xeno (WMF) please, the "On-wiki consultations" is from April to May 2021 but appears as "Ongoing". If we discuss these questions, will they be accepted?--Felipe da Fonseca (talk) 21:34, 7 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Felipe da Fonseca: We can still receive input; however, the sooner the better. The drafting committee will start to meet soon. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 21:50, 7 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Xeno (WMF) please may you give me a deadline? May it be until 28.05.2020? --Felipe da Fonseca (talk) 15:42, 9 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Felipe da Fonseca yes, keep open until 28 May though, please recommend community members to contribute sooner (as soon as possible), since the drafting committee will be starting to meet and discuss right away. The sooner ideas are presented, the more impact ideas will have on their work. We will still of course consider input that arrives later, and will include with the upcoming round-table notes. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 15:48, 9 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Xeno (WMF) I think the participation will be very low, but I will let they know. The process of creating interest and integrating the wiki.pt community into Meta will take some time.--Felipe da Fonseca (talk) 15:50, 9 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
And... how do I set a page to translate? Even if we don't translate the log, the other elements must exist in Portuguese.--Felipe da Fonseca (talk) 21:39, 7 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
I can mark that page for translation if that’s what you were asking. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 21:50, 7 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Xeno (WMF) actually I am asking how I mark the page for tradition myself, if I can not, so do it for me, please. How can I be part of the "drafting committee"? We probably won't have many comments, but I can do my personal ones next week.--Felipe da Fonseca (talk) 21:55, 7 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Felipe da Fonseca: Anyone can format a page per Meta:Internationalization guidelines however you require translation admin rights to actually set things for translation. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 23:59, 7 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
I know that the aplication was open until April 19, 2021, but I was not aware, is it possible to apply late?--Felipe da Fonseca (talk) 21:59, 7 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
I'm not part of the committee selection, however I do not think they can accept additional applications (unfortunately). However, there are still many opportunities to assist the drafting committee's work during a comprehensive community review later this year. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 23:59, 7 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Xeno (WMF) can you point me to committee selection's page so I can apply to them?--Felipe da Fonseca (talk) 14:48, 8 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
The drafting committee is described here: Universal Code of Conduct/Drafting committee - as noted, work is already under way. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 15:14, 8 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
There have been no comments so far other than my own. My comment was: "For Global Issues: In my opinion, no decision of any kind, including decisions to withdraw verification tools, should occur apart from the home communities. This kind of decision creates a huge schism between the home communities and the global community (Meta), which appears to the home communities as imposing a will from above, a will, moreover, completely foreign to the home communities. Not that there cannot be external auditing bodies, there must be, but audits must inevitably work with the home communities. For cases that require secrecy, let them work with those in the home communities who are able to work with this information. On dispute resolutions, they should follow what was said before in general: they should first of all contact the home community and work together with them, never, ever, separately."--Felipe da Fonseca (talk) 20:06, 22 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Xeno (WMF) --Felipe da Fonseca (talk) 20:06, 22 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Thank you Felipe da Fonseca for the translation, I have been following the page. Do you have insight into why there has not been additional engagement? I noticed that you advertised it widely and to some established users. Since we are trying to contact local communities and work together yet in some cases there is silence, so I am trying to better understand each community for the success of this model in future. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 13:21, 23 May 2021 (UTC)Reply


Hi Xeno (WMF), I am really interested in helping on this topic, you can see on my user page that this is one of the three focuses of my current work on Wikimedia projects, namely: to strengthen ties between the pt.wiki on the one hand, the Meta-Wiki and the WMF on the other. However, I really don't think this is the right forum for this discussion and I think WMF should open a meshpage with the main communities to discuss this. I am available to help in this model. In any case, I will not miss the opportunity and will try in a few lines to synthesize my opinion and understanding about the subject (whether correct or not, I think this is the general view). Before that, a brief contextualization of what I have been doing....

a) here you will find a proposal from me to open a site only for WMF communities, it was not accepted and rightly so, because the neglect of WMF affairs is so great, that a separate site for such would only make the situation worse (no one would follow the page); b) here, here, here and here you find four attempts of mine to approach, one of them was very successful (there was a lot of debate), one successful (there was some debate) and two completely unsuccessful (no debate).

I will divide my ideas into three focuses, the WMF, the Meta and the Pt.Wiki.

  • WMF
1) As I have been expressing myself in several forums, there is a very serious communication problem. One of the things that could help this communication is: today there is not, or I have not come across it yet (which in itself would be a problem) a page that gives an overview of the WMF's work with all its major projects and links to them;
2) I don't know exactly if this is the WMF's or the Meta community's assignment, but never, never, never should the WMF top-down override a decision of the home community (as was tried for example here, there is a more recent case, but as I was absent at the time, I won't comment). Any invalidation of home community decisions should be done in conjunction with the home communities members;
3) there is a complete misallocation of resources... those who work voluntarily for years managing the pt.wiki don't see the money, either because of difficulty of editors asking for resources for their daily administration tasks, lack of information, or whatever.
  • Metawiki
The Meta wiki forms a separate community from the home communities, a community that is difficult to access because of its particular internal structure and language. Therefore, more extensive use of mesh design is needed;
  • Pt.wiki
We see WMF as something distant that does not contribute anything to us, they just suck our blood. Reasons for this are:
1) WMF only approaches us to ask for money on our behalf (see here);
2) or to dictatorially undo our decisions;
3) we don't get any feedback from the WMF, we do all the work ourselves;
4) we don't see the money and those user groups that do, are not trusted by the community or are unknown;
5) we on the pt.wiki are tired of things being done behind the scenes;
Note: realize that this is a long-standing communication gap that will only change with constant, long-term action.
--Felipe da Fonseca (talk) 16:15, 23 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Thank you for those other examples of the model working well on pt.wiki, this is heartening. I agree this is straying a little off-topic so feel free to re-connect at my talk page, or I will re-connect at yours =) Xeno (WMF) (talk) 16:20, 23 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Xeno (WMF) this is not how I think we should do it, continuing the conversation on the discussion pages is the worst possible communicative strategy. We on the pt.wiki (that's always my opinion), are tired of things being done behind the scenes. We need a broad Mesh Design discussion, open for all.--Felipe da Fonseca (talk) 16:24, 23 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Where would be a good venue to discuss? Ptwiki embassy? (historical) w:pt:Wikipédia:Esplanada? FYI, I noticed you posted the EnWiki version on w:en:WP:VPWMF - that's not a well-watched noticeboard, only around 200 viewers and not the place for proposals, which is: w:en:WP:VPR. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 16:28, 23 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
I think the best way to deal with this is to open a discussion in mesh format: see Requests for comment/Closing the gap to and between the base communities. So: WMF open a page on Meta, and the members itself open it in the home communities. If you need help opening a meshpage, I can help on my talk page. --Felipe da Fonseca (talk) 16:34, 23 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
I can only speak for my work: which I am using a similar model - so to understand for future, creating a point on ptwiki is by starting a page like
:pt:Wikipédia:Esplanada/geral/Topic (date) and then transclude to the geral page? Or would I first have to invite local users to say "this is a thing we want to discuss"? Xeno (WMF) (talk) 16:59, 23 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Xeno (WMF) My suggestion: If you want to start a discussion on pt, post it at: pt:Wikipédia:Esplanada/geral. If you want to start a meshpage, open a page in mesh design in the Meta and a correponding one in: pt:Wikipédia:Esplanada/geral. We are not sure if this will work out, but it is the way I would go today.--Felipe da Fonseca (talk) 17:16, 23 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Xeno (WMF) if you need help, let me know.Felipe da Fonseca (talk) 21:04, 23 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Universal Code of Conduct News – Issue 1

Universal Code of Conduct News
Issue 1, June 2021Read the full newsletter


Welcome to the first issue of Universal Code of Conduct News! This newsletter will help Wikimedians stay involved with the development of the new code, and will distribute relevant news, research, and upcoming events related to the UCoC.

Please note, this is the first issue of UCoC Newsletter which is delivered to all subscribers and projects as an announcement of the initiative. If you want the future issues delivered to your talk page, village pumps, or any specific pages you find appropriate, you need to subscribe here.

You can help us by translating the newsletter issues in your languages to spread the news and create awareness of the new conduct to keep our beloved community safe for all of us. Please add your name here if you want to be informed of the draft issue to translate beforehand. Your participation is valued and appreciated.

  • Affiliate consultations – Wikimedia affiliates of all sizes and types were invited to participate in the UCoC affiliate consultation throughout March and April 2021. (continue reading)
  • 2021 key consultations – The Wikimedia Foundation held enforcement key questions consultations in April and May 2021 to request input about UCoC enforcement from the broader Wikimedia community. (continue reading)
  • Roundtable discussions – The UCoC facilitation team hosted two 90-minute-long public roundtable discussions in May 2021 to discuss UCoC key enforcement questions. More conversations are scheduled. (continue reading)
  • Phase 2 drafting committee – The drafting committee for the phase 2 of the UCoC started their work on 12 May 2021. Read more about their work. (continue reading)
  • Diff blogs – The UCoC facilitators wrote several blog posts based on interesting findings and insights from each community during local project consultation that took place in the 1st quarter of 2021. (continue reading)

Respect for the dead?

Would these sort of remarks [1] be covered by this Code? It's not even worth reporting them in the local project anymore, for a combination of who the person who said it is, and the overall lack of moral standards of the community. Chancellor Gordon (talk) 16:34, 26 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I as well think it's disrespectful for the thousands of genocide victims in Canada to be called less worthy than a building accident in Florida. Grüße vom Sänger ♫(Reden) 07:43, 27 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Vote

I look at the 'Timeline' section. I see more than 20 steps. But I do not see the most important - the ratification. Is any kind of vote or any other real confirmation of communities' consent is planned? What is the procedure of proposing and adopting amendments? I am a member of a ruwiki community. We have our policies on conduct. I am not quite happy with everything in it, but at least I can try to democratically change it through polls and votes (and I can). And that is the main reason, why I follow them voluntarily. Here I can't. And no my trusted representative can. Will the Code be legitimate? Dubious. Well, It can be enforced (scheduled for Dec'21). But no legitimacy can ever be gained with force. --Abiyoyo (talk) 15:01, 10 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Abiyoyo: the question about ratification has been brought up several times in the Roundtable discussions. As we are now waiting for the Drafting Committee to complete the Draft on Enforcement Guideline, everyone is welcome to provide their feedback on this one. RamzyM (WMF) (talk) 23:33, 22 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

Universal Code of Conduct News – Issue 2

Universal Code of Conduct News
Issue 2, July 2021Read the full newsletter


Welcome to the second issue of Universal Code of Conduct News! This newsletter will help Wikimedians stay involved with the development of the new code and will distribute relevant news, research, and upcoming events related to the UCoC.

If you haven’t already, please remember to subscribe here if you would like to be notified about future editions of the newsletter, and also leave your username here if you’d like to be contacted to help with translations in the future.

  • Enforcement Draft Guidelines Review - Initial meetings of the drafting committee have helped to connect and align key topics on enforcement, while highlighting prior research around existing processes and gaps within our movement. (continue reading)
  • Targets of Harassment Research - To support the drafting committee, the Wikimedia Foundation has conducted a research project focused on experiences of harassment on Wikimedia projects. (continue reading)
  • Functionaries’ Consultation - Since June, Functionaries from across the various wikis have been meeting to discuss what the future will look like in a global context with the UCoC. (continue reading)
  • Roundtable Discussions - The UCoC facilitation team once again, hosted another roundtable discussion, this time for Korean-speaking community members and participants of other ESEAP projects to discuss the enforcement of the UCoC. (continue reading)
  • Early Adoption of UCoC by Communities - Since its ratification by the Board in February 2021, situations whereby UCoC is being adopted and applied within the Wikimedia community have grown. (continue reading)
  • New Timeline for the Interim Trust & Safety Case Review Committee - The CRC was originally expected to conclude by July 1. However, with the UCoC now expected to be in development until December, the timeline for the CRC has also changed. (continue reading)
  • Wikimania - The UCoC team is planning to hold a moderated discussion featuring representatives across the movement during Wikimania 2021. It also plans to have a presence at the conference’s Community Village. (continue reading)
  • Diff blogs - Check out the most recent publications about the UCoC on Wikimedia Diff blog. (continue reading)

Thanks for reading - we welcome feedback about this newsletter. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 13:55, 15 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

What's the gist of UCoC?

Would somebody knowledgeable about this topic be willing to answer some questions. I read the lead and a couple paragraphs and couldn't easily discern this. 1) In plain English, what problem is the UCoC trying to solve? Do some Wikis not have a strong enough harassment policy or something? 2) In plain English, what changes is an experienced editor on enwiki likely to notice after this is implemented? Will there be a different procedure for reporting a certain class of misbehavior? Will something be more strictly enforced? Please ping on replies. Thanks. –Novem Linguae (talk) 05:18, 16 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

Novem Linguae: A recent interview with Maggie Dennis, (VP of Community Resilience and Sustainability) helps explain the rationale. At a basic level, the goal is to increase the feelings of contributor safety and well-being on the platforms to provide for inclusion. Community Insights surveys help to demonstrate the scope of the issue. Research did show some projects were without written conduct standards (Universal Code of Conduct/Research - Wikipedia, Universal Code of Conduct/Research - Other Wiki projects, Universal Code of Conduct/Initial 2020 Consultations).

For enwiki users, comments from experienced editors have generally pointed out the UCoC seems to be already heavily inspired by existing local policies, so there is a general feeling of not much "change" in terms of the actual expectations, though other concerns were raised (see report).

To the later questions, outlining clear enforcement pathways is the goal of the current phase, and the drafting committee is hard at work on this (see progress). Once the enforcement draft guidelines are released the proposed pathways will be more clear to us.

Hope this answers your questions somewhat. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 14:00, 16 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

Basically the Foundation feels the need to impose some kind of UCoC without anyone outside of the Foundation and its processes really asking for it. There has been quite a lot of resistance, but the Foundation feels the need to press on regardless. Foundation representatives have been asked repeatedly where and when any kind of consensus was built among the active communities to implement any kind of CoC. It was pointed out that off-wiki research has shown that people were praying for a UCoC and the Foundation was merely responding to desperate inquiries. When it was pointed out that the projects and communities that build the foundation for the Foundation (no pun intended) have long established processes to record and voice their concerns and wishes they were met with silence from said representatives. It appears that neither serious inquiry nor input is wanted and the Foundation will push ahead with a UCoC regardless of the communities' wishes. There are numerous examples of where this strategy has failed, but this time it's going to work really well. --Millbart (talk) 20:02, 22 July 2021 (UTC) P.S.: I never faked a sarcasm.Reply
@Millbart: I just want to point out that the UCoC was developed out of "Provide for Safety and Inclusion" recommendation from the three-year Movement Strategy process, which involved Wikimedians from across the globe. It was not something that was created out of a thin air nor be imposed by the Foundation; if you read the recommendation closely, it clearly mandated for the UCoC to be developed "in collaboration with communities" and "with respect to context, existing local policies, as well as enforcement and conflict resolution structures", which is something that the whole process has been about and will continue to be about. RamzyM (WMF) (talk) 23:27, 22 July 2021 (UTC)Reply